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  #1  
June 4th, 2007, 06:09 PM
*Aspen*
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What are your thoughts on putting an infant on a schedule?

What are your thoughts on sleep training your infant through the night?
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  #2  
June 4th, 2007, 06:44 PM
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I think routine is a must with any infant! I try to keep Emma on one as much as I can but she seems to think she doesn't need one. Sleep training...eh, I'm not so sure. Emma was EBF and was sleeping 4-5 hours by 8 weeks old and a few weeks after that she was going 6-7 at a time. So, I don't think it's necessary. If you don't want to get up in the middle of the night, then don't have a baby.
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  #3  
June 4th, 2007, 06:49 PM
glasscandie's Avatar What I make is what I am
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I think that infants end up putting themselves on a schedule (it just often doesn't coincide with the rest of the world lol), so why not let them be lol We (I) breastfed DD on demand the first 10 months (weaned herself), and we had the same schedule after a couple of weeks. I don't agree with sleep training, either. Generally anything that involves "training" your child goes against my grain
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  #4  
June 4th, 2007, 07:01 PM
chloe82
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Quote:
I think routine is a must with any infant! I try to keep Emma on one as much as I can but she seems to think she doesn't need one. Sleep training...eh, I'm not so sure. Emma was EBF and was sleeping 4-5 hours by 8 weeks old and a few weeks after that she was going 6-7 at a time. So, I don't think it's necessary. If you don't want to get up in the middle of the night, then don't have a baby.[/b]

Oh yay, these comments started early in this thread!! How delightful!
In response to the OP's questions, I think routine is a GREAT thing for babies, moms and families as a whole....it certainly helped keep me sane and my kids thrive on it (still). As for sleep-training, I did it with my two babies, have zero regrets about it and will do it with any future babies. I have a medical condition that requires that I get my sleep and not let myself get terribly sleep-deprived, maybe that leads other mothers to conclude that I should sterilize myself but I beg to differ....I am a great mom, my kids are healthy, happy, well-rested and we have a great bond, and I think that when sleep-training is done with love, knowledge and a thought-out plan, there is nothing wrong with it. I don't know what negative things you can say about the fact that after some short periods of crying for 2-3 nights, my kids were sleeping peacefully through the night, every night. I can't believe that those couple of days of some more crying than usual were so terribly damaging to my children and to our bond. To the contrary, when we BOTH were well-rested we were happier, and able to enjoy our days together much more. But alas, I'm sure the words "abuse" and "neglect" will come up soon anyways.
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  #5  
June 4th, 2007, 07:04 PM
frgsonmysox's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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I'm not big on schedules. I want my children to be adaptable. I've seen my friends kids who are on schedules and they can't leave the house at certain times. I mean in a sense we have a schedule (get up, feed molly, go for a walk, eat breakfast, ect...) but it's not on a time table.

I'm really against infant training. I *do* feel it's dangerous and a form of abuse.
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  #6  
June 4th, 2007, 07:05 PM
*Aspen*
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Quote:
I think routine is a must with any infant! I try to keep Emma on one as much as I can but she seems to think she doesn't need one. Sleep training...eh, I'm not so sure. Emma was EBF and was sleeping 4-5 hours by 8 weeks old and a few weeks after that she was going 6-7 at a time. So, I don't think it's necessary. If you don't want to get up in the middle of the night, then don't have a baby.[/b]
I agree.

If a baby wakes up, it's because they are hungry or thirsty most often.

Quote:
I think that infants end up putting themselves on a schedule (it just often doesn't coincide with the rest of the world lol), so why not let them be lol We (I) breastfed DD on demand the first 10 months (weaned herself), and we had the same schedule after a couple of weeks. I don't agree with sleep training, either. Generally anything that involves "training" your child goes against my grain [/b]
Same here.
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  #7  
June 4th, 2007, 07:06 PM
lotus86's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Posts: 3,759
Quote:
Quote:
I think routine is a must with any infant! I try to keep Emma on one as much as I can but she seems to think she doesn't need one. Sleep training...eh, I'm not so sure. Emma was EBF and was sleeping 4-5 hours by 8 weeks old and a few weeks after that she was going 6-7 at a time. So, I don't think it's necessary. If you don't want to get up in the middle of the night, then don't have a baby.[/b]

Oh yay, these comments started early in this thread!! How delightful!
In response to the OP's questions, I think routine is a GREAT thing for babies, moms and families as a whole....it certainly helped keep me sane and my kids thrive on it (still). As for sleep-training, I did it with my two babies, have zero regrets about it and will do it with any future babies. I have a medical condition that requires that I get my sleep and not let myself get terribly sleep-deprived, maybe that leads other mothers to conclude that I should sterilize myself but I beg to differ....I am a great mom, my kids are healthy, happy, well-rested and we have a great bond, and I think that when sleep-training is done with love, knowledge and a thought-out plan, there is nothing wrong with it. I don't know what negative things you can say about the fact that after some short periods of crying for 2-3 nights, my kids were sleeping peacefully through the night, every night. I can't believe that those couple of days of some more crying than usual were so terribly damaging to my children and to our bond. To the contrary, when we BOTH were well-rested we were happier, and able to enjoy our days together much more. But alas, I'm sure the words "abuse" and "neglect" will come up soon anyways.
[/b]

Did you read all of Ann's post? She agreed that routines were necessary. What does her comment have to do with calling another parent abusive or neglectful? No wonder we have so many closed threads around here, wow

Anyways, forgot to answer the OP:
I think it is more beneficial for the child to come to their own sleep pattern, instead of being "trained" into one. I don't believe in sleep training an infant under 6 months, *especially* if the mother is breastfeeding. After 6 months, I guess I can understand the need for it but I wouldn't personally use it. We were lucky in that Ryleigh is a sleeper, but we let her find her own schedule. She has never CIO. Bedtime was easy for us, but naps were difficult. It took about 6 months for her to get into a consistent napping schedule, but it never occured to me to use sleep training on her for those reasons. She slept through the night sporadically at 7 weeks. She has always known what she needed as far as sleep goes, and if I were to put her down and let her CIO because *I* decided that it was naptime, IMO, that would be a poor parenting choice for me to make.
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  #8  
June 4th, 2007, 07:08 PM
donomama
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I think schedules are great. In our family, it makes for a much happier baby and a much happier mommy.
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  #9  
June 4th, 2007, 07:18 PM
chloe82
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I think routine is a must with any infant! I try to keep Emma on one as much as I can but she seems to think she doesn't need one. Sleep training...eh, I'm not so sure. Emma was EBF and was sleeping 4-5 hours by 8 weeks old and a few weeks after that she was going 6-7 at a time. So, I don't think it's necessary. If you don't want to get up in the middle of the night, then don't have a baby.[/b]

Oh yay, these comments started early in this thread!! How delightful!
In response to the OP's questions, I think routine is a GREAT thing for babies, moms and families as a whole....it certainly helped keep me sane and my kids thrive on it (still). As for sleep-training, I did it with my two babies, have zero regrets about it and will do it with any future babies. I have a medical condition that requires that I get my sleep and not let myself get terribly sleep-deprived, maybe that leads other mothers to conclude that I should sterilize myself but I beg to differ....I am a great mom, my kids are healthy, happy, well-rested and we have a great bond, and I think that when sleep-training is done with love, knowledge and a thought-out plan, there is nothing wrong with it. I don't know what negative things you can say about the fact that after some short periods of crying for 2-3 nights, my kids were sleeping peacefully through the night, every night. I can't believe that those couple of days of some more crying than usual were so terribly damaging to my children and to our bond. To the contrary, when we BOTH were well-rested we were happier, and able to enjoy our days together much more. But alas, I'm sure the words "abuse" and "neglect" will come up soon anyways.
[/b]

Did you read all of Ann's post? She agreed that routines were necessary. What does her comment have to do with calling another parent abusive or neglectful? No wonder we have so many closed threads around here, wow

Anyways, forgot to answer the OP:
I think it is more beneficial for the child to come to their own sleep pattern, instead of being "trained" into one. I don't believe in sleep training an infant under 6 months, *especially* if the mother is breastfeeding. After 6 months, I guess I can understand the need for it but I wouldn't personally use it. We were lucky in that Ryleigh is a sleeper, but we let her find her own schedule. She has never CIO. Bedtime was easy for us, but naps were difficult. It took about 6 months for her to get into a consistent napping schedule, but it never occured to me to use sleep training on her for those reasons. She slept through the night sporadically at 7 weeks. She has always known what she needed as far as sleep goes, and if I were to put her down and let her CIO because *I* decided that it was naptime, IMO, that would be a poor parenting choice for me to make.
[/b]
Of course I read her post! Way to misunderstand mine! I bolded the part I was specifically replying to, the comment regarding how people who don't want to get up in the middle of the night shouldn't have babies. That's the kind of comment that makes me go . Also, I didn't say she called anyone abusive or neglectful, I said it wouldnt be long before those words started getting thrown around in this debate, and I wasn't out of line with that at all, since the next post said that sleep training can be dangerous and abusive.
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  #10  
June 4th, 2007, 07:21 PM
lotus86's Avatar Mega Super Mommy
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Everyone has been respectful in this thread. I don't see why you are being so defensive already, but, okay
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  #11  
June 4th, 2007, 07:28 PM
chloe82
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I didn't say anybody was disrespectful, nor am I being defensive (other than having to explain what I meant in my PP). I don't take this debate personally at all, I just find it's the same every time....a few people admit to sleep-training and then the terms abuse and neglect get thrown in there from the other side and then it usually gets ugly from there and the thread eventually gets closed (which I hate, btw).
I'm just saying, IMO, it's not abusive or neglectful at ALL to make sure all of your child's needs (fed, changed, warm, comfy, etc) are taken care of, and then taking measures to help them learn to self-soothe and fall asleep at certain times of the day/night. Not picking up your child and rocking/nursing them to sleep whenever they cry is not neglect. If you know they are fed, warm, dry, clean, etc, and are just fussing for their mom's arms it's not so horrible to teach them that they can drift off to sleep on their own, and that bedtime/naptime is the time to do that! IMO and my experience it can make for happier, more well-rested mothers AND babies.
BUT it does irk me when people use words/terms like abuse/neglect/shouldn't have babies for this type of parenting choice. Seriously, I just think the whole issue is blown out of proportion.
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  #12  
June 4th, 2007, 07:39 PM
*Aspen*
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Quote:
Night waking in babies serves many healthy and protective functions. It allows frequent feeding and the intake of needed nutrition for growth; it creates the opportunity for emotional reconnection and stimulation of optimal brain development; and it is potentially protective against SIDS, allowing babies to avoid long periods of time in deep sleep that can leave them vulnerable….

Babies are unable to make sense of a caregiver who is attentive at certain times of the day but unresponsive at nap and sleep times…. Regardless of which sleeping arrangement one chooses, it is vital to understand the importance of responsiveness to a baby’s cues and needs no matter what time of day or night.[/b]
Quote:
Sleep researchers note that the human sleep mechanism is not completely formed until five years of age and night waking is the norm in babies and young children.[/b]
Quote:
Because western culture values independence and self-reliance, we often look to foster these traits in our children. In our society, a baby who sleeps through the night is regarded as achieving the ideal. However, what seems best for the adults in the family may not be best for baby.[/b]
http://www.centreforattachment.com/index.p...4&Itemid=45

I know this probably isn't a health study site or w/e, but they do make points that I personally agree with.
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  #13  
June 4th, 2007, 07:51 PM
donomama
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To me, sleep training and getting a baby on a schedule are two totally different things. I get my baby on a schedule as soon as I possibly can - putting them down in their beds at the same time everyday, doing a bedtime routing and a daily routing (bathing, etc. at about the same time everyday). I don't try to sleep train until MUCH later.
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  #14  
June 4th, 2007, 08:11 PM
glasscandie's Avatar What I make is what I am
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Quote:
To me, sleep training and getting a baby on a schedule are two totally different things. I get my baby on a schedule as soon as I possibly can - putting them down in their beds at the same time everyday, doing a bedtime routing and a daily routing (bathing, etc. at about the same time everyday). I don't try to sleep train until MUCH later.[/b]
Oh I agree. Well, minus the sleep training part b/c we don't do that. But when DD was an infant, regardless of the fact that we were feeding on demand (I keep thinking about my Comcast TV when I say that lol), I always went to bed at the same time, I tried to wake up at the same time, etc. I would still get up with her at 2am if she decided that was when she wanted to be awake, but we would do quiet things (rock in rocking chair, etc).
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  #15  
June 4th, 2007, 08:24 PM
Tofu Bacon
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Ironcially enough, I started out as a Babywise mom with ds. He had a schedule from day 1, it was never "forced" and it suited him just fine, but I believe it was just his temperment since he's always been easy-going. The schedule did come in handy with planning the day around his needs, but some days I felt almost like a slave to his schedule. Hindsight being 20/20, if I could go back I would NOT have tried to keep a schedule for my newborn; however smoothly it did help things run, it was absolutely not worth losing my milk supply over . I know that doesn't happen to every mom, but it can easily happen to a new mama who's supply isn't fully established; I pretty much dried up within 3 weeks of following Babywise

I never did any kind of "sleep training" beyond a bedtime routine.
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  #16  
June 4th, 2007, 08:31 PM
thepinkleprechaun's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Um, does anyone want to get up at night? I know I don't lol!

We did not try to "train" Aden at all, but she did start sleeping through the night at about 2 months old. During the day she sleeps when she is tired and she eats when she is hungry and she usually goes to bed between 8 and 9 PM, and sleeps until 7 or 8 AM. She's pretty consistant with her night time sleeping though, and she stays awake most of the day. I don't think I could handle CIO, and I guess next time I have a baby I'll just do the same thing and let the baby get on his/her (hopefully her) own schedule.
I just think if a baby wakes up at night there is probably something wrong so you're the mom and you should take care of them. I don't think that's too much to ask!
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  #17  
June 4th, 2007, 08:36 PM
frgsonmysox's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Don't get me started on Babywise
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  #18  
June 4th, 2007, 08:47 PM
chlodoll
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I think some form of routine is important for babies. They like to have one. We try to do everything around the same time each day, sometimes a nap goes to long and it throws it all off but you just try to go back to it the next day. I wish I had more of a routine when DS was smaller, I would have been less stressed for sure.

Sleep training could mean different things. I think there are alots of methods but really consistency is key. I do not like CIO. Babies crying pull at my heart to much. My son is 18 months and still wakes up once or twice a night but only for a minute and it doesnt bother me. As a mother there are some sacrifices we must make, he wont be doing it forever.
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  #19  
June 4th, 2007, 11:52 PM
rose198172's Avatar Platinum Supermommy
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Quote:
I didn't say anybody was disrespectful, nor am I being defensive (other than having to explain what I meant in my PP). I don't take this debate personally at all, I just find it's the same every time....a few people admit to sleep-training and then the terms abuse and neglect get thrown in there from the other side and then it usually gets ugly from there and the thread eventually gets closed (which I hate, btw).
I'm just saying, IMO, it's not abusive or neglectful at ALL to make sure all of your child's needs (fed, changed, warm, comfy, etc) are taken care of, and then taking measures to help them learn to self-soothe and fall asleep at certain times of the day/night. Not picking up your child and rocking/nursing them to sleep whenever they cry is not neglect. If you know they are fed, warm, dry, clean, etc, and are just fussing for their mom's arms it's not so horrible to teach them that they can drift off to sleep on their own, and that bedtime/naptime is the time to do that! IMO and my experience it can make for happier, more well-rested mothers AND babies.
BUT it does irk me when people use words/terms like abuse/neglect/shouldn't have babies for this type of parenting choice. Seriously, I just think the whole issue is blown out of proportion.[/b]
ITA... and that's all I'm going to say on the subject for right now.
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