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Not sure if this is funny or scary...

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  • 1 Post By Rachel

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April 5th, 2012, 06:29 PM
Keakie's Avatar Learning to walk in faith
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but I'm a big documentaries person. I watch them during the day because I like learning things. Sometimes they're intellectually challenging and sometimes they're more fun and lighthearted. The other day, I chose one about psychopathy and the major focus of it was on individuals who meet the criteria for psychopathy who are *not* murderers or otherwise in prison.

I was horrified, as they went through the official diagnostic checklist, to realize that a lot of those behaviours fit bm. After it finished, I looked at the check list online out of curiosity and did a tally based on the points system associated with the diagnostic check list. It was a little scary to see that, based on my computer chair analysis () she actually does meet enough of the criteria to qualify for an official diagnosis of psychopathy.

According to the documentary and guidelines, each tick on the checklist is worth either 0, 1 or 2 points. 26 and higher warrants an official diagnosis of psychopathy. Bm totals 27, and that was with me being generous to compensate for the fact that I'm not a psychiatrist.


*Excitedly expecting baby girl number two!*

Thank you to Babydoll213 for my fabulous siggie!

Last edited by Keakie; April 6th, 2012 at 07:02 AM.
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April 5th, 2012, 09:02 PM
plan4fate's Avatar I may bend, but not break
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LOL. I think it's both scary and funny.
1798 Days to Conceive our Miracle!
Baby Girl Due August 7th 2017!!

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April 6th, 2012, 09:54 AM
K.A.T's Avatar Enjoying her Sticky Bun
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Kinda funny but sad at the same time.

❤ Big Thanks to Vicki, trishosaurus, & Shortcake for the great siggies of my kids! ❤
Liz (36) Kev (35)
Tiana (16) Doni (14) Lil Kev (8) Ethan 7/23/12 Lil Roo 10/29/11

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April 6th, 2012, 12:12 PM
Keakie's Avatar Learning to walk in faith
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Or, you know, she might just be a horrid person of her own volition.

It just struck me as amusing because this is a woman who likes to "diagnose" everyone around her. More or less, if you don't like her or don't let her walk all over you or if you dare to call her on a her poor behaviour, if you stand up for your own protection or boundaries, it must be because you have (insert mental illness of choice here). It's not because people generally don't like being lied to or manipulated or because she conducts herself in a way that *requires* you to respond by calmly enforcing boundaries. It's because you're crazy. She's not the problem. And yet here she is, meeting more of the criteria for a lot of these disorders than anyone she accuses of having them.

*Excitedly expecting baby girl number two!*

Thank you to Babydoll213 for my fabulous siggie!

Last edited by Keakie; April 6th, 2012 at 12:16 PM.
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April 6th, 2012, 04:12 PM
Rachel's Avatar Just Rachel
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Share the check list. I'm sure W&C's mom meets the criteria, but I'd love to see officially.

And I think it's both
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April 6th, 2012, 05:37 PM
Keakie's Avatar Learning to walk in faith
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I'll add it in below. I originally put it in the OP (along with commentary from me) but when I noticed this post had like, 20 views and only one reply I wondered if people were just deciding TL;DR.

I'll bold the ones that apply to our bm.

Hare's Checklist

1. GLIB and SUPERFICIAL CHARM -- the tendency to be smooth, engaging, charming, slick, and verbally facile. Psychopathic charm is not in the least shy, self-conscious, or afraid to say anything. A psychopath never gets tongue-tied. They have freed themselves from the social conventions about taking turns in talking, for example.

2 points.

2. GRANDIOSE SELF-WORTH -- a grossly inflated view of one's abilities and self-worth, self-assured, opinionated, cocky, a braggart. Psychopaths are arrogant people who believe they are superior human beings.

2 points. In addition to being the only person in the world who does not have any mental issues, she is also the only person who is competent enough to raise children, cook a meal and dress herself.

3. NEED FOR STIMULATION or PRONENESS TO BOREDOM -- an excessive need for novel, thrilling, and exciting stimulation; taking chances and doing things that are risky. Psychopaths often have a low self-discipline in carrying tasks through to completion because they get bored easily. They fail to work at the same job for any length of time, for example, or to finish tasks that they consider dull or routine.

I generously only gave bm one point here.

4. PATHOLOGICAL LYING -- can be moderate or high; in moderate form, they will be shrewd, crafty, cunning, sly, and clever; in extreme form, they will be deceptive, deceitful, underhanded, unscrupulous, manipulative, and dishonest.

Full 2 points here, as well. This is someone who has concocted at least 7 different versions of what caused her divorce from dh (some versions include her leaving because he was abusive and scary, and some versions include how he kicked her out of the house and left her for me (in reality, he and I weren't even on a first name basis until several months after they decided to separate)). She also frequently writes about how dangerous dh is and how worried she is about sending the kids to our place, and then turns around and sends us emails demanding that we keep them for longer periods of time and demanding that she get her time off. She also, as some of you know, agreed very quickly to us taking the kids out of the country for a week this summer, with no concern and with assurance from us that if she said no, we weren't going to fight her on it and would accept that. The list goes on and on but those are some recent examples.

5. CONNING AND MANIPULATIVENESS- the use of deceit and deception to cheat, con, or defraud others for personal gain; distinguished from Item #4 in the degree to which exploitation and callous ruthlessness is present, as reflected in a lack of concern for the feelings and suffering of one's victims.

Full 2 points here. I can't even get into it without making me angry on behalf of my husband and my in-laws, so I won't - but trust me, 2 points.

6. LACK OF REMORSE OR GUILT -- a lack of feelings or concern for the losses, pain, and suffering of victims; a tendency to be unconcerned, dispassionate, coldhearted, and unempathic. This item is usually demonstrated by a disdain for one's victims.

Full 2 points. A recent example was her giggling with her friends over how she planned to not tell dh she wasn't going to allow him to claim the kids on his taxes this year despite thinking he had his paycheck with holdings set to include the kids (basically, for those who haven't had to deal with that, if you set your paycheck with holdings to include dependents and then don't claim those dependents on your return, you owe several thousand dollars in back taxes). She also had a grand scheme to dump the van she is obligated by the settlement agreement to take into her own name (it's currently in dh's) back onto dh and buy a new vehicle altogether, which means we'd suddenly have a surprised vehicle payment. She also thought it was comical that it was damaged. Regardless of how she feels about him as a person, that is money she's taking away from the children.

7. SHALLOW AFFECT -- emotional poverty or a limited range or depth of feelings; interpersonal coldness in spite of signs of open gregariousness.

Full 2 points. No further explanation needed.

8. CALLOUSNESS and LACK OF EMPATHY -- a lack of feelings toward people in general; cold, contemptuous, inconsiderate, and tactless.

Full 2 points, as this behaviour extends to people besides dh and myself. She more or less barrels over anyone else's feelings and doesn't feel badly about it because "other people are responsible for their emotions, not [her]" - which in and of itself is true in a way but to deliberately hurt people and fall back on that is a whole other kettle of chips.

9. PARASITIC LIFESTYLE -- an intentional, manipulative, selfish, and exploitative financial dependence on others as reflected in a lack of motivation, low self-discipline, and inability to begin or complete responsibilities.

Full 2 points. I will leave the support issues aside as I don't want to get into that debate, but *our* bm specifically has made it clear she doesn't feel that working is her job and doesn't plan to do it any time soon. She also frequently complains about my in-laws, who are in their mid-60s and who BOUGHT HER A HOUSE post-divorce, because it shouldn't be her job to take care of the lawn or other small maintenance things around the house. It should be their responsibility to look after that all for her whenever she needs it. It's her parents' job to pay for everything else for her.

10. POOR BEHAVIORAL CONTROLS -- expressions of irritability, annoyance, impatience, threats, aggression, and verbal abuse; inadequate control of anger and temper; acting hastily.

Full 2 points. I will say it is more under control now than it used to be, but I credit that to the fact that she has a circle of friends who help her write most of her emails to us.

11. PROMISCUOUS SEXUAL BEHAVIOR -- a variety of brief, superficial relations, numerous affairs, and an indiscriminate selection of sexual partners; the maintenance of several relationships at the same time; a history of attempts to sexually coerce others into sexual activity or taking great pride at discussing sexual exploits or conquests.

I will very generously give her 1 point only here.

12. EARLY BEHAVIOR PROBLEMS -- a variety of behaviors prior to age 13, including lying, theft, cheating, vandalism, bullying, sexual activity, fire-setting, glue-sniffing, alcohol use, and running away from home.

I'll decline to give her any points for this one because I don't know.

13. LACK OF REALISTIC, LONG-TERM GOALS -- an inability or persistent failure to develop and execute long-term plans and goals; a nomadic existence, aimless, lacking direction in life.

If I could give 3 points, I would, but I can't so I'll stick to 2.

14. IMPULSIVITY -- the occurrence of behaviors that are unpremeditated and lack reflection or planning; inability to resist temptation, frustrations, and urges; a lack of deliberation without considering the consequences; foolhardy, rash, unpredictable, erratic, and reckless.

I'll only give one point here as well, although I suspect a lot of the reason she doesn't engage in that sort of thing all the time can be credited to the same circle of friends. They're mildly versed in family court and so she's informed what will be good for her long term and what will not be, and the fact that we have insisted on email communication only (with the exception of emergencies) gives her time to discuss a lot of that with them.

15. IRRESPONSIBILITY -- repeated failure to fulfill or honor obligations and commitments; such as not paying bills, defaulting on loans, performing sloppy work, being absent or late to work, failing to honor contractual agreements.

Full 2 points.

16. FAILURE TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR OWN ACTIONS -- a failure to accept responsibility for one's actions reflected in low conscientiousness, an absence of dutifulness, antagonistic manipulation, denial of responsibility, and an effort to manipulate others through this denial.

Full 2 points. Some recent examples are the aforementioned van - she needs to take it into her name but can't get a loan. She claimed she couldn't get a new vehicle without a down payment and she was waiting for her portion of dh's 401k (which she got at the beginning of 2011 - it did take awhile because dh's layoff rendered the original paperwork void and so alternate processes needed to be enforced - and she apparently just didn't use it for a vehicle after all). Last year we renewed the tags for her because it was the only way she would let dh claim the kids on his taxes (there's nothing in the agreement about taxes, and unlike this year, when we predicted she would be a pain about taxes again and changed his withholdings accordingly, we were blindsided in 2011 and so it was a choice between registering it for her - which is outside of dh's responsibility and keeps us in a vulnerable situation with the bank because dh is on the hook with them for a vehicle she's in full control of, and paying thousands in back taxes), but this year we told her we changed the with holdings so we don't care if we claim the kids on taxes or not so she was not going to be able to use it as leverage. We told her this in December, and the tags expire in June, so she had over 6 months' notice that we weren't going to renew the tags because we want this van thing wrapped up. This was after we were informed of her plans to just get a new vehicle, so we did include that if it were easier for her, we would cooperate with signing any paperwork should she want to trade in the van for something else. She ignored our email altogether.

To this day (literally - my fil went over to the house today to look at the septic system and she went into a tirade about this) she still explains it to people as though dh just "won't" sign the papers over to her (he has called the bank umpteen times and they will not transfer the loan to her unless she qualifies for her own loan - that's their policy. We don't *want* it in dh's name and would sign it over in a heartbeat if she took the action she needed to) and she was ranting about the fact that we have a "new van" (our van is actually older than hers - we just only purchased it last year). We obtained our van so that we didn't need to switch vehicles with her on visitation weekends (dh had a Jetta before that that wouldn't fit everyone) because she never put gas back into the car and was putting over 60 miles per weekend on it (she actually made plans to take it out of state, too, but that just happened to be the first weekend we had the new van - she didn't know we had it until we pulled up that day). It also has nothing to do with her van and she's only stuck with it because she spent her 401k money on other things and has failed to find a co-signer in her family. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to trade in for a vehicle that accommodates everyone, but according to her it does.

17. MANY SHORT-TERM MARITAL RELATIONSHIPS -- a lack of commitment to a long-term relationship reflected in inconsistent, undependable, and unreliable commitments in life, including marital.

I'll give her a one because she was married to dh for almost 10 years and only had one affair during that time. Other than that she's had 4+ boyfriends in the last 2.5 years, but I suppose 5ish in over 10 years isn't so bad.

18. JUVENILE DELINQUENCY -- behavior problems between the ages of 13-18; mostly behaviors that are crimes or clearly involve aspects of antagonism, exploitation, aggression, manipulation, or a callous, ruthless tough-mindedness.

Again, don't really know so I will say 0.

19. REVOCATION OF CONDITION RELEASE -- a revocation of probation or other conditional release due to technical violations, such as carelessness, low deliberation, or failing to appear.

Not applicable as she's never been on probation or conditional release. 0.

20. CRIMINAL VERSATILITY -- a diversity of types of criminal offenses, regardless if the person has been arrested or convicted for them; taking great pride at getting away with crimes.

Not yet, but give it time. 0 points.

*Excitedly expecting baby girl number two!*

Thank you to Babydoll213 for my fabulous siggie!
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April 9th, 2012, 01:07 PM
Platinum Supermommy
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wow sounds like dh's ex & his oldest dd (not surprised on either count). Sounds like my ex too. (no surprise there either )

My 2 miracles: Lucinda & Noah

Last edited by My2miracles; April 10th, 2012 at 02:53 PM.
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April 9th, 2012, 09:36 PM
Rachel's Avatar Just Rachel
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Oh yeah. I didn't write it all down, but it certainly looks like his ex would meet the criteria. *shudders*
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April 9th, 2012, 09:58 PM
Rachel's Avatar Just Rachel
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Yikes. Neely and I just tallied it up and she is at 31.
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April 10th, 2012, 09:13 AM
Keakie's Avatar Learning to walk in faith
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*Excitedly expecting baby girl number two!*

Thank you to Babydoll213 for my fabulous siggie!
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